Mike reply comments to me:
Bob – That the mines and bombs and “social liberations” are now performed primarily by Americans instead of by Russians has nothing to do with who rules Russia. After all, who needs a revolutionary Russia and a “cold war” when Israel’s enemies are in the middle east and Americans are anxious to communize the world? Ergo a revolutionary Russia is no longer necessary, and only good as a vast resource to continue looting. But Ronnie certainly didn’t finish off the Soviet Union, any more than Georgie is a conservative. You know these things.
You should also know that it’s not “crabby” of me to raise these issues. You’ve asked countless times for input. One old right winger to another, I appreciate that.
My reply to Mike:
Mike, I didn’t say you were crabby, I said not to get that way.
And you are welcome to call me a lot worse than that. You won’t be setting any precedents.
I haven’t given the US any slack, but there is a reason that no huge group of refugees has EVER run AWAY from Americans. The media never mentions that fact, and they spent millions of dollars keeping reporters on the northern border of Iraq at the beginning of the war to interview the refugees.
They didn’t come. Regular people don’t run away from Americans in droves.
The media considered this no story. I thought it was a HELL of a story, but one the media didn’t want to tell. I talked about that at length on whitakeronline at the time.
It is important to remember that when we are not under alien influence, “We the People of the United States and OUR posterity” are a uniquely good people, and we will be that again. You and I both know the difference between gullibility and evil.
To say that Americans and the Communists are on the same plane is simply wrong.
We now have tens of millions of racial kinsmen in Eastern Europe who say everything right out in the open that you and I get persecuted for saying here. I’ve heard them.
Now that the USSR is gone, the right-wingers are more and more obviously irrelevant. They could always avoid talking race by saying that the Soviets were the threat. The Israeli dominance of American policy is now front and center in a way it never was during the Cold War.
Too many people on our side ENJOY being depressed. It gives them an excuse to bitch and not do anything. Don’t help them out.
Since the Cold War new lines are being drawn and nobody but us knows how to deal with them. Least of all our worst enemies, the respectable conservatives.
Israeli dominance, immigration, all these issues are getting to the point where the media is fighting an increasingly desperate and hopeless fight to ignore them.
We won a victory. Let’s claim it.
#1 by Mike on 04/22/2005 - 4:24 pm
Bob – What victory? Communism Central moved (it’s official offices) from Moscow to Washington. That’s a victory?
Two other points:
Yes, plenty of people have run from (and fight to their death against) the American military. It’s just not broadcast in America! It’s why wars take years nowadays instead of the couple of days mass surrenders would. It’s why Americans are sent home in boxes, discreetly. Do you think that Americans don’t practice torture in gulags? Seventy years ago, the average Russian didn’t think Russians did either! Are these people inherently evil? Of course not. They just do what they’re told to do – and always will. But meantime, you’re portraying it as a battle won by the good guys against the bad guys. I think that’s very misleading because even after seventy years of (official) communism Russians aren’t as corrupt as Americans are, consciously or not.
and,
Americans and Russians haven’t been communists because they’ve wanted to be communists. Hell, Americans don’t even know they’re communists, but they practice it for the same reason Russians did…. out of fear of authority. Is it a different, more consumer-oriented version? Sure. Is it more profitable, in the short term, for the jews who finance, swindle, and destroy empires? You bet.
I’ve drifted away from my initial objection about Ronnie defeating the Soviet Union/communism. I hope you don’t mind, but I enjoy conversing with you. Yes, I’ve even learned some things from you! Overall however, I wish you would rely less on hostility toward white Europeans. They are waaaaaaaay ahead of America in experience, and are our only brethren in a hoped-for backlash against the jewish yoke – however likely it may be.
#2 by Bob on 04/22/2005 - 9:06 pm
I will continue the discussion if you give one example of masses of people running away from Americans.
#3 by Elizabeth on 04/23/2005 - 2:13 pm
Funny thing about all that Iraqi resistance — excepting the religious nuts (follows of that creep Al Sadr, the Shi’ite leader who inherited his leadership) and thugs who used to work for Saddam, they’re all career terrorists from elsewhere.
The Iraqi borders are porous, too.
The problem isn’t just Iran. The problem also consists of Lebanon’s de facto terrorist-governed chunks, Syria, and Saudi Arabia’s developing revolutionary movement.
It’s a legacy of decades of U.S. leadership believing, in happy oblivion, that everybody fights fair and believes the same things as respectable liberals and respectable conservatives.
#4 by Mike on 04/24/2005 - 9:14 pm
Bob – you must be kidding. The Confederacy. Cuba. Germany. Japan. Panama. Serbia. Iraq. What do you think people do when American troops invade their countries? Some fight and some run. If American troops were welcomed as the “liberators” they’re portrayed as, these endless military occupations would end!
I think you must base your idea that people don’t run from armed invaders, of whatever stripe, on a distortion of the reputation Russians had as being the most barbaric invaders during WWII, taking that to mean that the western front was a lovefest. No doubt the Russian reputation was deserved, but that doesn’t mean that German civilians (or anybody else) haven’t run from American invaders. Is it likelier that Abu Graib is something new or something Americans are finally being exposed to? Only Americans rely on the indoctrinated belief that the world welcomes “our troops”, instead of on common sense.
#5 by Mike on 04/24/2005 - 9:56 pm
Hey Bob – Your family is from South Carolina, right? So’s mine, although I was born in Georgia. What to do you think those Southern civilians did when yankee troops showed up with their torches? Do you think they poured them tea and thanked them for the “liberation”?
#6 by Bob on 04/24/2005 - 11:43 pm
The South was the one place where we did have to run away from the Yankees. I’m glad you mentioned it.
But as to your more general comment, a speech is not an example. You said that defeated enemy troops did run away from Americans. That’s what defeat means. But not civilians. No, Germans ran away from Russians, but not from Americans. The media accidentally made this fact clear when they set up the watch for running refugees in Iraq.
The streams of refugees in Vietnam were NOT running from the Amerians. None of anybody’s media mentioned this.
I asked you for an example, not a speech. Where are those hordes of civilian refugees running from Americans? If it is so common, you should be able to come up with one example.
The Yankees are an exception, but were they Americans in the sense we use the word?
Where were those brave Europeans who were crossing INTO Communist countries during the Cold War? If the Communists and Americans were the same, why is no record of people breaking OUT of the West and INTO the East?
Lee Harvey Oswald went to the Soviet Union, but no one forbade him doing it. He also came back to America. Since he had formally renounced his citizenship, the President had to especially sign a document to let him return to the United States. The President who signed that document was John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
#7 by Mike on 04/25/2005 - 7:07 pm
The Yankees were Americans, weren’t they? Why the exception? What about Japs who killed themselves rather than surrender to Americans? There weren’t any Russian communists there. Do you doubt that many Iraqis would welcome some Russians now, to liberate them from Americans? Ever hear of “the great Satan”? It’s a phrase that’s been applied for decades to AMERICA, NOT RUSSIA – not by jews but by the jews’ enemies – by people around the world who FEAR and RESIST Americans.
I didn’t claim that Russian communists and Americans were the same. But I’m telling you now that there was less of a difference than most people thought there was. Naturally you’re going to have more people try to leave the east and go to the west if there’s more freedom in the west, which of course there was. That Americans have been told that the world loved them and hated the Russians, well, what do you expect Americans to be told? Americans who believe it, otoh, are Americans who think that conservatism consists of “Support Our Troops”. They’re the people who’ve swallowed the notion that America is doing the world a favor by taking it over, and they resent the ingratitude of people who RESIST. Some even deny that it happens.
Again, if nobody ever resisted Americans, there wouldn’t be any American casualties.
Neither of us is likely to ever know that whole story of Oswald, and I don’t know why you mention it since, if anything, it demonstrates that he left the USSR as freely as he left the US. As for Kennedy, que sera sera.
Bob, I know what you’re trying to say but I also know, and you should too, that you’ve turned the numerous incidents of Eastern Europeans fleeing the Soviet bloc into the silly claim that nobody ever ran from or resisted Americans. And it just ain’t so, by a long shot. Don’t pretend I didn’t give you examples.
#8 by Bob on 04/25/2005 - 8:20 pm
Mike,
“The silly claim that CIVILIANS never ran away from AMERICANS in large numbers” is what I maintain.
You gave me two speeches and no examples of exceptions since the Yankee invasion of the 1860s.
Not Japanese soldiers shooting themselves. Not the enemy retreating after defeat. Civilians.
It is very important that large numbers of civilians never run away from Americans, and you seem as desperate to cover that up as the media is.
One experiment is worth a hundred expert opinions. One example is worth a hundred speeches, most of which I have made myself.
It is very important that large numbers of civilians never run away from Americans. Why not just admit this simple fact and go on?
#9 by Mike on 04/25/2005 - 8:58 pm
I forgot about the Injuns. How many Injuns do you reckon ran away from Americans (as well as vice versa)?
#10 by Mike on 04/27/2005 - 7:26 pm
Bob – If you think that the CIVILIANS in all of the nations the US has invaded do not run from those American invaders then you don’t know much about human nature. I listed several, certainly not all, examples, but like most Americans, you pretend not to see them. Denial of reality is what America is all about, after all. It’s why they bitch about illegal aliens, to the point of trying to guard the borders themselves, scratching their head, don’t understand why their president doesn’t do his job. It’d never dawn on them that what’s going on is INTENTIONAL POLICY, because, well, it’d be “un-American”.
About half way down page two this thread (“Dr. Brandt” actually) pretty much says it all:
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=17967