Some weeks ago, I proposed that we use campaign ads to get the Mantra into the media, for exactly the same reasons that Kelso gives below.
Where this stopped was that a commenter in the Swarm said that an expert on Stormfront said, “Have Bob get in touch with me and I’ll tell him why a Mantra campaign would be a disaster.”
H. Avenger knows that I don’t have the energy to get to get in touch with anybody, but he said he knew who this guy was and would check with him if and when he had time to.
So I let it drop. I don’t know if I will have the energy to file candidacy here, and no one else is going to do it.
A few days ago I Skyped Jamie Kelso, who has me on the Board of the Alternative Party, and asked him if one of our candidates would like to do this, if I sent him the money.
This was the exchange:
ME: Could Brandt run an ad consisting of the Mantra? How much would it be? I could pay for it if it’s not…
KELSO: Yes, Bob, I’m sure that Ralph would like to run the mantra as a political ad. I’ll get the radio prices for this now, and get back to you with them. We’re talking VERY inexpensive when we’re talking radio ads run for a political candidate…the law requires three things: the station must run your ad, they may not edit it, and they must charge you their LOWEST rate. That lowest rate is always very low. In West Virginia our 30-second ads cost us between $4 and $10 each per run. That’s the best cluck-for-our-buck available to us today in mass promotion.
KELSO: This radio spot strategy is one of the innovations of A3P. This radio spot strategy is available only to political candidates. The law only applies to them.
Great minds think alike.
Now what I would like is for the candidate to simply recite the Mantra and say he authorized this ad.
But, as we few know all too well, the response to the Mantra at first is always “DUHHH!” A mass “DUHH!” and media silence is not what a candidate is normally looking for.
Would somebody else contact Kelso and discuss this and give us a new angle or a new start.
Kelso can be reached day and might at 561-351-4424.
I just called him and he has agreed to do a piece for us on his use of the media this way.
It seems to be our dream:
It is CHEAP — for campaigns — and it is UNCENSORED.
AP3 will be campaigning until next November.
#1 by OldBlighty on 11/25/2011 - 8:20 am
“But, as we few know all too well, the response to the Mantra at first is always “DUHHH!” A mass “DUHH!” and media silence is not what a candidate is normally looking for.”
Almost everyone who has put their face to the Mantra on Youtube, has been hit by the Anti-White S. Storm.
So I can’t imagine these candidates being ignored for long, if they keep playing it over and over.
#2 by H.Avenger on 11/25/2011 - 1:58 pm
“H. Avenger knows that I don’t have the energy to get to get in touch with anybody, but he said he knew who this guy was and would check with him if and when he had time to.”
Bob, here is an update (I gave this to you already on skype….but I will refresh your memory).
That was Calvert. And he has since started posting here. I also posted a long response on the Swarm about the challenges faced by those offering well intentioned advice while not already on the Mantra.
#3 by Simmons on 11/25/2011 - 3:22 pm
Thanks H.
For the new guys, perhaps a year or two ago I opened my mouth about soundbiting the Mantra, well that opened the flood gates and drove Bob to sitting on the balcony watching the sun set.
#4 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 5:19 pm
“Now what I would like is for the candidate to simply recite the Mantra and say he authorized this ad.”
NO! Ha! Bob, I was listening to one of your porch talks last night, “The Product Called Information,” and for the first time I heard you yourSELF recite the Mantra, between 14:35 and 16:47 minutes into that talk. Well let me tell you, the Mantra is a whole different experience hearing YOU RECITE it! You inflect parts of it in a way I don’t think anyone else could…I’ve heard it recited as youtube videos, but to my (admittedly Southern) ears, no one has come anywhere close to doing for the Mantra what you do for it. I think your voice would have convinced me even if I hadn’t been listening to the words! I can’t imagine that your recitation would get a “duh” reaction, and someone who can do youtube videos should do one with your recitation in it.
So I’m thinking that 2 minute 10 second recitation of yours in that porch talk is ready to go for any politico who would want to use a version that would probably be more convincing than his own delivery of it. The only possible flaw I heard was that, to my elderly ears, “what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object” sounded more like “would object”…but I’ll bet younger ears will hear it clearly.
I’ll try to find Kelso’s email address and send him that link and the times, and maybe others will want to also. Maybe I’ll even overcome my feeling of being a bother and call him as you suggest.
———————
About Calvert, I like the guy and would hate to see his view misrepresented if that’s been the case (and especially since I’m likely the one to blame):
Bob writes:
“Where this stopped was that a commenter in the Swarm said that an expert on Stormfront said, ‘Have Bob get in touch with me and I’ll tell him why a Mantra campaign would be a disaster.’”
Bob, I don’t think Calvert ever said that, whatever may possibly have been reported here. Calvert had been making the point that in his opinion it was not necessary to PAY for a mantra campaign…I believe he did think that a mantra campaign was a hot idea.
Are you thinking of the post I made here:
“Me to Byron Calvert:
‘So have you contacted Bob Whitaker yet so you two can sit down and brainstorm?”’
Calvert:
‘No. And I haven’t heard from him, either. But do him a favor, if you hear that he is really going to waste money buying ads to promote the mantra, have him get in touch with me first.’
Mr. Whitaker, if you see this, I’ve been urging Calvert that you two sit down and talk. He’s apparently had a lot of success getting media to pay his way in his white power record business.”
—
The critical phrase was “getting media to pay his way”…that was Calvert’s point, and is something he says he’s had success with.
(Oh, I see now how my quoting Calvert out of context very naturally gave you the wrong idea. Yow, sorry about that)
#5 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 6:11 pm
I just sent this PM to Kelso at his site whitenewsnow.com:
(Subject): Whitaker recites his own Mantra BEST for use by any politico!
Bob has posted on his site concerning his conversation with you about using his Mantra in political campaigns. I’m knocked out by the way he himself recites it…If you have a couple of minutes you can hear it in his porch talk “The Product Called Information,” found in this list of his audios,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/townhall.htm
or directly,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/audio/theproductcalledinformation.mp3
His recitation of his Mantra is from 14:35 to 16:47 minutes into that talk.
I don’t think anyone could match his inflections of it! I told him I think his voice alone would convince me even without my listening to the words! So I’m thinking that that 2 minute 10 second recitation of it by Bob is ready to go for any politico that wants to use it.
Thanks!
UnclePen (aka Harumphty Dumpty, bugster)
#6 by H.Avenger on 11/25/2011 - 6:14 pm
Harumphty Dumpty,
Playing the Media game is just that…..A GAME. Calvert also replied that he was busy with his family and farm. And Bob is no Spring Chicken. Bob is writing to see if anyone else wants to play the game. Calvert was not implying that getting media to “pay the way” was exactly a walk in the park. This is still work…and let me capitalize this for you… WORK.
Hell running ads when you are paying money is not a walk in the park either. Especially for us, this stuff always requires more work than is imagined. Anything in this struggle you attempt will always require a hell of a lot more work than can be imagined. That is why it is call a STRUGGLE. Currently, I am busy dealing the programmers and the ad people for alt news sites. Which should be straight forward….but it ain’t. Go figure.
What Bob is saying is as follows: Ole Bob does not mind spending the money for the cause. He just does not have much energy to spend these days.
#7 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 6:18 pm
(ignore this sentence…I’m trying to fool the filter into letting my “duplicate” post in)
——-
I just sent this PM to Kelso at his site whitenewsnow.com:
(Subject): Whitaker recites his own Mantra BEST for use by any politico!
Bob has posted on his site concerning his conversation with you about using his Mantra in political campaigns. I’m knocked out by the way he himself recites it…If you have a couple of minutes you can hear it in his porch talk “The Product Called Information,” found in this list of his audios,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/townhall.htm
or directly,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/audio/theproductcalledinformation.mp3
His recitation of his Mantra is from 14:35 to 16:47 minutes into that talk.
I don’t think anyone could match his inflections of it! I told him I think his voice alone would convince me even without my listening to the words! So I’m thinking that that 2 minute 10 second recitation of it by Bob is ready to go for any politico that wants to use it.
Thanks!
UnclePen (aka Harumphty Dumpty, bugster)
#8 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 6:22 pm
(please ignore this sentence…I’m trying to fool the filter to allow this “duplicate” post)
——-
I just sent this PM to Kelso at his site whitenewsnow.com:
(Subject): Whitaker recites his own Mantra BEST for use by any politico!
Bob has posted on his site concerning his conversation with you about using his Mantra in political campaigns. I’m knocked out by the way he himself recites it…If you have a couple of minutes you can hear it in his porch talk “The Product Called Information,” found in this list of his audios,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/townhall.htm
or directly,
http://www.whitakeronline.org/audio/theproductcalledinformation.mp3
His recitation of his Mantra is from 14:35 to 16:47 minutes into that talk.
I don’t think anyone could match his inflections of it! I told him I think his voice alone would convince me even without my listening to the words! So I’m thinking that that 2 minute 10 second recitation of it by Bob is ready to go for any politico that wants to use it.
Thanks!
UnclePen (aka Harumphty Dumpty, bugster)
#9 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 6:28 pm
I just sent a PM to Kelso at his site whitenewsnow.com. (I was going to post a copy of what I sent here, but the filter is blocking it). I just touted Bob’s own recitation of the Mantra as unmatchable, and ready to go for any politico who wishes to use it, and I gave Jamie the link and times at which to listen to it:
http://www.whitakeronline.org/audio/…nformation.mp3
Bob’s recitation of his Mantra is from 14:35 to 16:47 minutes into that talk.
#10 by Harumphty Dumpty on 11/25/2011 - 6:41 pm
I follow you, Horus. Believe me, I often wonder how you have time to do a tenth of what you do. “It takes longer than you think” is a frequent refrain of my own for many years. I wish I were more of a fireball myself, but I’m just not. Plus I’m getting on too… that’s one reason I enjoy watching Genseric and meawhiterabbit…they’re always up to something!
You know, I wonder if Matt Parrott (Hoosier Nation, etc.) will be a possibility as a mantra-bearing politico at some point. I’ve been mainly arguing with him at OO, where he manages the site I believe, but I’ve gotten the impression in the past that he may be looking forward to political possibilities, and he describes himself as mantra-friendly.
Uh, at this point, I would definitely NOT be the one to approach him! But wait, I could post it! Bye!
#11 by Fourmyle on 11/29/2011 - 10:23 pm
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
A useful place to use the Mantra, if you are willing to spend very little money to very good effect, is (was, anyway) WWCR, the shortwave station used by William Luther Pierce to read the American Dissident Voices broadcasts Kevin Alfred Strom wrote.
You could even run some of Bob’s podcasts, mixed with Horus Commentary, wrapped in Mantra recitations.
To those who argue this would attract too small an audience, let me remind you that it attracted more than one thousand DUES PAYING MEMBERS to Pierce’s Hillsboro Alliance, many – Hell, most – of who wondered when Pierce would start the political organization Rockwell worked towards. The answer, to Pierce, was never.
Something can be DONE about that.
Incidentally, putting a website address in the broadcasts, following the opening and closing recitations of the Mantra, would allow for a fast feedback check. It would also facilitate financial support. Potential Tea Party members might even be interested.
#12 by Byron on 12/03/2011 - 12:26 pm
Apparently Mr. Whitaker does not read the comments here, as I already introduced myself and suggested a quick Googling of my name would explain my activities for the past decades. I also sent an e-mail to Mr. Whitaker which was unanswered.
I never claimed to be a “Stormfront expert,” in fact Don Black has deleted every post and thread I have made there due to our personal conflict that goes back years and isn’t important.
And I never said a Mantra campaign would be a disaster, I said that one does not have to pay for media attention.
I worked for Dr. Pierce at Hillsboro and have either run or owned the largest, most popular pro-white music and clothing businesses in America. Other pro-white record labels and orgs have responded when the media happened to approach them, but at Panzerfaust Records, I put together a Media Manipulation project that resulted in a feeding frenzy that let me devote myself full time to dealing with media. I gave interviews to CNN, NPR, 60 Minutes, GMA, Newsweek, Tom Brokaw and countless local news stations and newspapers from coast to coast and overseas, as well as radio talk shows, like Rusty Humphries.
I got huge feedback from thousands of people, each exposure saw hundreds of thousands of hits to our website, my audio recordings routinely got tens of thousands of downloads within weeks and our business grew faster than we could comfortably manage.
I did not charge the media for interviews, because we profited from the exposure, but I spoke on Stormfront about pro-Whites I know of who have charged up to $50,000 for the media to interview them and follow them around for a while with cameras. I know of one group that got $11,000 for a single sit-down interview.
I suggested on SF that, had I ever even heard of the Mantra then, I could easily have exposed it to the tens of millions of Americans I did manage to communicate with.
That was called Project Schoolyard, which can obviously be Googled, and I could do my media manipulation with PF Records, because I had a staff, including webmaster, two order packers, silk screener, etc…I currently own and single handedly run Tightrope Records and we homeschool 5 children. I can’t play with the media like I used to, but I suggested that the basic concept of generating media attention could be tweaked to accommodate someone pushing the Mantra without having to run a business on top, and it could be done cheaply, with a single person.
Bugsters on SF shot it down and said it could never work and to prove it they repeatedly referred to Fox not running some interview with Mr. Whitaker. They said the media would never, ever, ever let the Mantra through, because it was too effective.
When someone suggested I share some experience and advice with Bugsters, the response was that Mr. Whitaker didn’t have the energy and Mr. Avenger didn’t have the time.
I’m sure Genseric and the rest are correct, and that the media won’t let anyone do anything with the Mantra, so I’m sure paying for ad time and running for town council will reach all the people you want. If your ability is equal to your desire, you will achieve success. Good luck.
#13 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/03/2011 - 2:00 pm
@ Byron: My own response to you on SF was entirely different from what you describe.
Why not just jump right in with some specific ideas on the threads here where publicity and such is being discussed?
#14 by OldBlighty on 12/03/2011 - 3:23 pm
Byron says,
“When someone suggested I share some experience and advice with Bugsters, the response was that Mr. Whitaker didn’t have the energy and Mr. Avenger didn’t have the time. ”
This is true. Bob has health problems and Horus is very busy doing his own Mantra related promotion, which he has been developing for a long time.
If you have the skill to do these things, I strongly suggest you do them. Everyone at BUGS is “senior staff” and Bob expects us to show initiative. So create a thread and post your advice, or start using the media, to get the Mantra out there.
“Robert Whitaker grants full and free use of his ideas and writings as they pertain to aiding others in stating the facts about white race genocide and its agenda of forced non-white immigration and integration into ALL white countries and ONLY white countries.”
#15 by Byron on 12/03/2011 - 4:58 pm
Mr. Dumpty, if you were not one of the unstable wackos fussing at me on Stormfront, then I wasn’t referring to you.
Mr. Blighty, it’s not a matter of “if” I have any particular skill, I have done what I described doing, it’s a matter of record and can easily be verified. While I enjoy Mr. Whitaker’s articles, MP3s and the book “Why Johnny Can’t Think” (which I got from Amazon recently) I am not a “bugster” and I am neither pushing my methods nor complaining that I can’t persuade anyone to use them.
I saw some people desperate to reach millions of people with a Mantra who thought leaving comments on various message boards would do the trick. I corrected them and suggested using mass media instead. It doesn’t concern me whether anyone actually does it or not.
I am at the level with my own operations that I also expect others to show some actual initiative and not require constant hand holding. My main pro-White website gets between 5,000 and 6,000 visits a day and I spend all day, every day, on the phone or computer dealing with our customers who all happen to be pissed off White people. I don’t need to increase our business a bit, so I have neither the time nor inclination to gear up another mass media project.
I think the doubters are correct, and what I did cannot be replicated by anyone else. What I would tweak and do differently next time is a direct result of knowing exactly what reaction I got last time, and how I got it. Anyone who doesn’t trust or believe me about my previous experiences will not understand why things need to be done a certain way and what result it would achieve. If I ever see anyone show serious initiative, aptitude or potential, I’d help them out. But when I’m talking about reaching tens of millions of Whites, as I have already done, and people here are talking about buying ads in the local paper or cable access channel, we aren’t even in the same book, much less the same page.
#16 by OldBlighty on 12/03/2011 - 9:12 pm
Byron,
You are stressing words, I put no stress on. Again I will point out everyone at BUGS, is expected to show initiative. We are not taking orders from a central structure. Bob is our coach and he is training lots of Bobs, to go out and attack the anti-White power structure anyway we can.
Horus took the initiative and created a podcast to bring in new BUGSers. Truck Roy is also using the mantra on his show.
Peter Rabbit, and a multimedia guy (apologies to him I forget his name), and several others went ahead and made excellent videos last year, for Youtube. That was an idea that came from within the SWARM and it was the first time the anti-Whites encountered effective resistance on the web.
A fellow from Iceland called Creator, did amazing work getting around 10% of people in his country, possibly more, to hear the Mantra in full, before the media, shut him down.
David Duke, Don Black, Derek Black, etc have started using it in their work as far as I know they they aren’t BUGSers.
Now there are guys from Norway that are making amazing videos, that are changing people’s minds up there.
None of these guys waited for Bob to tell them to do anything. I assumed you were making a website? Whatever you are good at, start doing it now. We are all getting the Mantra out anyway we can. Some have specialist skills, while others can type. Everyone is doing their part, according to the skills they have.
#17 by OldBlighty on 12/03/2011 - 9:37 pm
I forgot Ramzpaul started incorporating the Mantra into his work, not long after we started hitting his channel with the Mantra.
My Tram Experience – British Woman Arrested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIVdR0RAo74&feature=channel_video_title
And sorry if I have missed any other guys, I know there are many more all doing their part.
So Byron, if you want to be the next Horus, Truck Roy, Ramzpaul, James Edwards, etc and you have the skills to do so, then start using those skills right now.
#18 by Byron on 12/03/2011 - 11:04 pm
Mr. Oldblighty: I try to be careful talking on the internet, since typing to people you don’t personally know is open to misinterpretation and hurt feelings much more than a personal face to face conversation, I’m sure you know what I mean. So I don’t want you to take this the wrong way like I’m condescending to you or barking at you. But I don’t know who Ramzpaul is, I only heard about Horus for the first time a month or two ago, I know Truck Roy and he’s had me on his show and I understand Mr. Edwards has a very professional radio show. I’m sure they are all talented, dedicated and intelligent fellows with a loyal, but small, audience of mostly sympathetic folks. I would not care to emulate any of them. I’d be more happy if any of them, or all of them combined, managed to surpass what I have already done.
I know that’s not delicate, polite or demur, but it’s fact. If you want to talk about intentionally crafting a mass media manipulation project that can make your company hundreds of thousands of dollars while reaching tens and tens of millions of White Americans, I have “been there and done that,” as Mr. Whitaker says of himself and his efforts in the world of politics.
I’m not sure what you mean by suggesting I do whatever I’m good at….I told you, I currently own and operate the biggest, most successful pro-white company in the country. I spend all day, every day doing what I’m good at. Now, my current customer base means I deal with people in the thousands and not the millions that I used to, but I refuse to hire people again and have to rely on them. I do everything at Tightrope Records myself.
The very fact that what has already been done is so hard for you to understand is proof to me that it’s a waste to even think about taking anybody here to the next step of modifying and repeating it.
So, yes, thank you, I am using my skills right now, but instead of wanting to be the next Horus, etc., they might want to try aiming to be the next Byron.
Nothing I did was good enough, but I’m waiting for some keyboard snipers to surpass it.
#19 by OldBlighty on 12/03/2011 - 11:57 pm
You are coming across as incredibly insecure and you are taking offense, at every suggestion I have made in good faith.
As Bob has said, if people get offended and stomp off over mere words, then we should be rid of such people, because they destroy movements from within.
Bob calls such people, Human Landmines and right now that is what you are looking like to me.
I have pointed out that many people are already doing things using their own initiative and suggested you do the same and apparently, that is enough reason for you to take offense.
I can’t do any more for you Byron, but tell you how things are done here. You will have to take your bat and ball and go home.
#20 by Genseric on 12/04/2011 - 11:40 am
Nein, nicht so sehr.
Ich glaube, er sagt “Human Time Bombs.”
And I’m unstable? HAHA………..Perhaps. But, I think I can point to one who is more stable than I.
http://www.whitakeronline.org/blog/2011/05/08/getting-rid-of-human-time-bombs-means-freedom-of-speech-for-bugs/
#21 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 12:18 am
But I’m not offended and went out of my way to be gentle with you. I am very sympathetic to Mr. Whitaker when he explains why he barks at people impatiently for getting off message or suggesting changing the Mantra for whatever reason. It’s because he knows what he knows, and the millionth person to make some fumbling attempt at tweaking a proven method pays the price for all of the well-meaning people who preceded him.
You should understand that I know that you have nothing to hear from me. You will follow none of my advice and I get that. I’m not really talking to you. I’m talking to anybody who might ever read this and “get it.” That’s not an insulting of your intelligence. But I see Mr. Whitaker as a sign post…he may not be able to go there, but he’s pointing the way. I don’t ask him where he posted the Mantra today, because he expects you to post it, or hopes you will. I am no longer able or much interested in spending my day doing interviews with mainstream media, but I’d love for someone younger and more unencumbered than myself to dig into it.
I’m not offended by you, I’m impatient with the people who consistently don’t get it. I got tired of people saying, “If you think it will work so well, why don’t you do it yourself?” So I made it happen and did it. When I try, years later, to convince ambitious folks to take the baton and run with it, they get insecure and say, “If it worked so well, why don’t you do it again yourself?”
I’m not meaning to barge into your little clubhouse and make you feel inadequate, I’m saying I have already done what you claim to want to do, but you can only get snippy because an outsider may have experience that could help you.
Mr. Whitaker is a professional persuader and after all these years he complains that he has only persuaded a dozen or two people to copy and paste his Mantra. I’m not a professional persuader of would-be activists so I don’t feel badly for not grooming a successor.
If you feel provoked by me, it may say more about you than me. Ignore what you don’t like about me and pay attention to what I’m actually telling you, maybe that will help you.
You are only limited by your imagination, so all the best and I wish you luck in your endeavors.
#22 by Coniglio Bianco on 12/04/2011 - 1:21 am
I had followed some of the discussion on SF and I don’t blame Bryon for getting frustrated since the discussion here is going about the same way. Talking to some of you people is like talking to a brick wall. You need to open your minds to new ideas even if it means questioning what you are doing now.
Pasting the mantra around the YouTube and comments sections of newspapers is good but it isn’t nearly good enough. We are only reaching thousands of people that way instead of the millions that we need to reach.
As Bryon had previously pointed out it is a matter of numbers. It will simply take too long to accomplish what we need to using the methods that we are currently using in order to raise awareness to the level required to take down the system.
Has anyone noticed that genocide against Whites has slowed down in any perceivable way since you started posting the mantra around? I haven’t noticed anything. I’m not saying that what everyone has been doing hasn’t had an impact but it hasn’t had enough of an impact. At the rate things are going I’d give us about ten years to make some kind of breakthrough or else we are finished.
Just because Bob hasn’t been able to get the mantra into the mainstream media doesn’t mean that isn’t possible either. What Byron is talking about is a method of doing exactly that. It would be a way of reaching the millions of people that we need to reach with the message of White genocide.
So at least keep your mind open to what the possibilities are. He is not saying not to use the mantra he is talking about using a different approach to spreading the mantra so that it reaches more people and faster than it is reaching them now.
#23 by OldBlighty on 12/04/2011 - 2:00 am
Byron,
I admit as my communications skills are not the best, as I am used to slamming anti-Whites in the field every day. So I apologize for my harshness.
I will try one last time. After this I will leave it to our better communicators.
From what Bob has said, he is not interested in turning BUGS into a big website. We already have big websites, where Pro Whites talk to to each other and achieve nothing in the wider community.
BUGS is about attracting quality, not quantity.
We want serious people that will do the work everyday, rather than treating Pro White as a discussion group on the net.
BUGS mission is to seed meme’s into the wider community.
So when I say Byron, go do what you are good at, I am not insulting you or telling you to get lost, I am telling you to do the same job everyone else here is expected to do. Build a big website of your own, promote the hell out of it and use the Mantra.
I know these things, because I have read Bob’s blog every day for a couple of years. Am I right in thinking you guys don’t understand what Bob is doing? Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of expectations, is what I am thinking.
Conglio,
When you have achieved as much as Bob has, we’ll listen to you. Track records in politics are important, considering we are working in the field of politics.
If you don’t have a track record of success working at the highest political levels, you aren’t going to be taken seriously here. Why should you be?
#24 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 2:12 am
I feel like I’m being royally mind-fucked just reading these exchanges. If you’re so godawful brilliant and accomplished Byron (which I don’t doubt), maybe you could figure out how to not make even someone who’s rather championed you like myself want to fucking strangle you! Or do you give a good goddam whether you do some good here or just piss everybody off with your gratuitous fucking insults and other bullshit?!
What the hell specific ideas have you proposed that supposedly everyone here has turned their noses up at and Coniglio is upbraiding us for having done so? Could you direct me to them please? All I hear from you aside from your excellent general ideas is calling people here “unstable wackos” and saying crap like, “If I ever see anyone show serious initiative, aptitude or potential, I’d help them out.”
Of course you don’t have any people working for you. Who the hell could work with you? You’ve hardly even posted here and I’m sick of you already!
For Christsake quit being such a goddamned asshole! If you’re only here to stir shit go stir it somewhere else!
#25 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 2:58 am
So we have before us now Bob Whitaker and Byron Calvert, two men both of whom IMO have extraordinary abilities and things to offer that few of us ordinary mortals can match.
Calvert, we here have had the mentality to take to the very different approach of Bob Whitaker. So there’s no reason to think we wouldn’t take to your innovative improvements in how Bob’s message could be delivered. If you aren’t making any progress among us it’s because YOU are doing something wrong.
I can’t help still having hopes of getting some help from someone who has your ability. But I’ve seen enough of your modus operandi with pro-Whites now, between your latest here and that thread of many days on Stormfront (your postings here have become such a copy of your behavior on that SF thread that it’s like watching a kid throw the same tantrum twice), that I will be surprised if you turn out to be possible to work with. If you could tell me that you have EVER worked successfully with a group of people, I will be in awe once again of how surprising the world can be.
You need to learn, as Bob apparently has, how to include among the people you respect those who have less understanding and ability than you have. And to realize that the deficiencies you see in others are more than matched by the deficiencies many of us see in you.
#26 by Genseric on 12/04/2011 - 12:04 pm
The real question is while flashy productions run by our people which Earn Big Money are important, does it really matter at the end of the day if they fail to deliver the consistent message? If they fail to mention White genocide? If they fail to SECURE our homelands?
The real question is “is Bob Whitaker more capable of taking down the Berlin wall in EVERY White country? Or is somebody else?”
Some have proven to us their willingness to lead. Are they also capable of being lead?
I have said it before. If you SHOW me you are willing to fight White genocide, I will follow you to hell and back. Why do you think I am here? Show me that you work against this in any way and I will blackball you like O.J. Simpson at bingo night.
#27 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 3:21 am
OldBlighty: Thank you, I appreciate and respect your tone much more in that post. Calling people insecure and telling them to take their ball and go home is always apt to provoke people, huh? I guess I spent too long in prison at a young age and I’ve never gotten used to people using a keyboard to provoke people they would not provoke in person. You have to realize, one of your fellow Bugsters here was on SF stating that the media only lets White activists on that are working for the jews, etc…Truly erratic and moronic stuff. Not that I’m painting all of you with the same brush, but there you go…
When I run something up the flag pole, I’m looking for a certain response, even if it’s only from a single individual. From the BUGS community I’ve only gotten doubt and scorn on one hand, or, “Go do it yourself,” or “tell us the answer,” on the other. Not what I’m looking for. I won’t discuss tactics with someone who can’t accept the strategy. I find that truly, truly bizarre and unfortunate.
Maybe you are right and I don’t understand what Bob is doing, even though he says it plainly. You need tens of millions of people to hear and embrace the Mantra as only the first step. What did Bob say about how Reagan fixed the economy because he was really wanting to focus on the international stuff? He did the few simple things needed to fix the economy and got on with more important things. I see you guys hitting a wall on the media, not knowing how to get media attention, wanting to buy little ads in podunk markets, etc…Mass media attention on the cheap pushing the Mantra should not be your stumbling block, the right person or people could just do it and let the Mantra have it’s effect. I’ve already done it but I still can’t find fertile soil to throw any seeds on.
I only posted on this thread because I saw that I had been mentioned and misquoted and simply wanted to set the record straight, not raise anybody’s blood pressure.
#28 by OldBlighty on 12/04/2011 - 3:32 am
Byron,
I also think you were given the impression you were being asked to be a consultant, and people would be taking direction from you. That also appears to be a misunderstanding.
I have seen Bob write, he does not want people that say, “You should do this, or you should do that”. What he wants is people coming back and saying, I tried this and this is how it worked out.
#29 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 3:56 am
No no, I had no impression that I was being asked to be a consultant by any means. I basically AM coming back and saying, “This is what I did and this is how it worked out,” and I retardedly thought someone in your circles here were interested in doing the same. Seemed kind of obvious to me. From what I constantly read here, YOU guys are the ones desperate to reach tens of millions of people with your message, not me. I’ve been there, done that, still have the shirt I got there, it was fun, etc…
I’m not having any more luck with you guys than Bob had all those years trying to get anyone to listen to him, huh? I guess there’s something wrong with both of us, and at both of our ages, we probably ain’t going to get any better, so………….
Whatever…I’ve created a booklet with what I consider to be some of Bob’s best stuff, so all of our customers get exposed to the Mantra and can check out a few sites to learn more. As far as mass media, that’s a dead issue, I get it, I can’t repeat THAT Mantra without being accused of throwing a tantrum, so I have nothing further to say about it with you good folks. And no, that doesn’t mean I’m “taking my ball and going home,” I just withdraw my suggestion that anything I have done could possibly be in any way used to promote the Mantra. I’m positive that it can not.
#30 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 4:41 am
@ Byron:
“so I have nothing further to say about it with you good folks.”
Jerk.
“I’ve created a booklet with what I consider to be some of Bob’s best stuff, so all of our customers get exposed to the Mantra and can check out a few sites to learn more.”
Good work! As with everything else you’ve recounted of your doings, I admire (and envy) your ability to accomplish so much.
#31 by Genseric on 12/04/2011 - 12:17 pm
LOL
This is funny. My same basic reaction as I read it.
I wonder if Berny thinks the Mantra qualifies as “Some of Bob’s best stuff??”
If so, I wonder if he realizes he’s a BUGSter….?
#32 by Coniglio Bianco on 12/04/2011 - 4:50 am
‘Old Blighty’
Why would anyone take you seriously either in that case? I really don’t think I should have to brag about my accomplishments. Truth is truth regardless of who speaks it.
If Bob had all of the answers this little problem of ours would be solved by now wouldn’t it?
The point I was trying to make is that there should be a way of working together and that is not only desirable but necessary.
How many people do you think have even heard of the mantra? Perhaps 1 in 10,000.
How many people need to hear the mantra before it has a real political impact? Perhaps 1 in 10.
How long do we have before it’s too late? Perhaps 10 years.
How long will it take to reach the required numbers with the techniques we are using now? Answer that question for yourself and you will see what I am talking about.
It’s a race against time and we are losing.
#33 by Genseric on 12/04/2011 - 12:31 pm
The greatest thing I can honestly say that I take away from this article and the subsequent replies is somewhat telling for me.
To me they show that Berny is warming to the Mantra and Bob. Not necessarily the Idiots who support him and subscribe to his methods, just Bob and the Mantra.
So, that being said, where do BUGSters think he is on the consensus-based trance scale (1-10)? 1 being totally anti-White frontal lobotomy recipient and 10 being BUGSter level. Remember, individual independent thinkers fall somewhere in between.
#34 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 1:19 pm
“Not necessarily the Idiots who support [Bob]”
Genseric, Calvert is very adept at turning peoples’ minds to his own view of himself and to his own view of the people he puts down. Just witness your own phrasing here! Lol! 🙂
I’m tired of absorbing his insults and put-downs, which he always manages to slip in along with his charm.
He’s blindly pursuing his usual program when he’s among pro-Whites, which is to make everything about himself.
He’s very good at doing that…as Don Black posted on the review-of-the-seminar thread on SF, it had become “the Calvert thread.” Just as this thread is becoming the Calvert thread.
If you’ve ever known anyone in your life who is blindly stuck in unsuccessful ways of dealing with people and is incapable of seeing their own behavior or of changing it, you can add Calvert to that group IMO.
I would be delighted to be proven wrong.
Even when not being insulting, he automatically sets himself apart and above, and beguiles his listeners into not even noticing that they are granting him that status. If anyone else of us had created a booklet of Bob’s sayings, we’d think it an oversight that the person hadn’t put it somewhere that the rest of us could see it and rejoice and comment, and we’d immediately be asking the person if he could post it somewhere! But with Calvert, without even being conscious of doing so we accept as appropriate to his status that he doesn’t share. A little thing, but important.
I may be overreaching in that last paragraph, I’m not sure. Everything about the guy suddenly strikes me as wrong, except what I suspect would be his extraordinary ability to spread the mantra if he decides to, or if some people here with the energy (I don’t have that energy myself) to implement whatever his specific ideas might turn out to be can see his potential as I see it and also have the psychological hardiness to work with him. I hope there will be someone. And maybe he would actually be pleasant to work with if he could get the kind of response he’s looking for here, which is apparently someone who sees his potential enough to collaborate with him. I’m just guessing. He certainly hasn’t made it easy, and I doubt he will or can.
I don’t mind turning yet another thread into the Calvert thread, because I think it’s worth the effort. But it’s a long shot, probably a very long shot, because of the personality out of which he deals with people.
#35 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 10:34 am
Obviously you realize that bit was completely tongue in cheek.
#36 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 1:32 pm
I did later, Genseric.
#37 by Fourmyle on 12/04/2011 - 3:48 pm
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
One, Byron is a ten on the consensus trance scale.Frankly, he got there first; he saw The Problem, writ small, and Did Something about it.
Two, he shames most of self-identified White Nationalists, as they live in fear of Competence, as it demonstrates what they COULD have done. Remember what Greg Johnson said about the defeated nihilists and their self-defeating behaviors, that they “become” self-identified “White Nationlists” in blind rebellion, having already accepted The Enemy’s Terms and Definitions. Worse, they define themselves in terms of what they are against, and not in terms of what they are FOR.
Obvious techniques are available to get The Mantra out there, to one degree or another. For example, ads in the Carto newspaper, tied into broadcasting on WWCR (again, it worked for Pierce, forming due-paying members to his Hillsboro Alliance.)
just think of Byron as being our version of Don Draper, star of “Mad Men,” with enough of the Primal Masculine going to scare away lesser men.
And, assuming someone actually looks at The Mantra, I give you the words of Harold Covington: “And THEN What?” Why should they pay attention, and what should they do if they did?
THAT leads to organization, and, in time, political organization.
First, we need to learn the mindset of intelligent assertiveness, and shift from playing defense all of the time. Or, as Heath Ledger’s Joker character said to the leaders of organized crime, “What happened? Your balls drop off?”
Don’t all answer at once.
By the way, note that Byron is sending out The Mantra with all of the orders he gets. Good idea. having a website address linking to The Next Step might serve us all well, as well.
Finally, a personal comment.
Most of Byron’s detractors are jealous. He is effective, and they…
#38 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 4:08 pm
What Byron is doing on his own is great. But what is he trying to do here? I’m sometimes slow but not stupid, so if you understand what he’s trying to do here and would explain it to me (since he hasn’t shown any desire to explain it himself yet) I could probably understand your explanation and would be very grateful to you, truly.
I’m not familiar with Don Draper.
#39 by Fourmyle on 12/04/2011 - 7:50 pm
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
I will let Byron speak about why he is here.
Personally, I have the impression that if he had BUGS available as a resource back in the day, Panzerfaust would be a tip of the iceberg of the national political organization Rockwell wanted, and Pierce deliberately repeat deliberately short-circuited at all points. Less time would have been spent in the ineffectiveness of oppositional defiance per se, and more time spent in purposeful opposition that built towards a positive purpose. An organization that describes what THEY are doing to us that is wrong is one thing. An organization that defines what we can DO about it, intelligently, is something else altogether. That, also, is what Pierce strangled in the crib. One idea came from the late David Eden Lane, who argued for islands of economic ethnocentrism, White owned and controlled cooperatives, for example These would be the living economic foundation of a new nation. Robert Mathews originally proposed we form the foundation of a White ethnostate in the Northwest. Sadly, they listened to Pierce, and worse, took him seriously.
A parallel economic and political system, based on White racial interests, leading to a White Homeland. Pierce strangled the foundations in the crib; why he did so is left as an exercise for the student.
Pierce acted as a circuit breaker; no more than “X” was allowed out, or allowed to get through. The result is the continuation of the half century of failure Dr. Revilo Oliver described in 1969.
Robert Mathews, David Eden Lane, and Byron Calvert would have made a formidable team, developing the living foundation of a new nation that was unapologetically for the White Race – period.
Pierce, as I have said before, made sure that successful organizing – political, or economic – would never happen for us, and our Posterity, on his watch.
Byron succeeded as an organizer, and a facilitator – simple as that.
What Byron is saying here is, in part, what Dave is saying here – Whitaker offers us all of his painfully gained experience for free, and we have to Do Something with it, to be effective.
EVERYONE else, with the exception of counter-currents and Harold Covington, is looking to a past that never was, and can not be again. Byron Calvert, BUGSers, the counter-currents/NANR people, and Harold Covington want to build anew, and build much damn better. THAT requires a very cold, clear-eyed model of How The World Works, without the illusions that you can turn lead into gold, or worse, that lead and gold are equal, and equally valuable.
Don Draper is the fictional character in AMC tv series “Mad Men.” Don is us when we had our balls, acting without fear or favor, and living without apology. The Pussificiation Factor with Don is a negative number.
See him on YouTube. Just type in “Don Draper” and see what it was like when Real Men walked the Earth.
THAT is part and parcel of what it will take to build a Racial Homeland, as Lane and Mathews envisioned, as Covington has defined, and as Pierce deliberately set out to strangle in the crib.
Message?
If it is to be, it is up to me. Period.
Incidentally, the Emma West affair is proof positive the clock is running; it has run, for Formerly Great Britain, and is running out, for us. If you want to see what happens when limits on free speech are institutionalized against us, there it is.
#40 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 9:04 pm
“I will let Byron speak about why he is here.”
As I keep saying, I’m waiting for that. But not with too much hope of hearing it.
If he’s here just to inspire us with chest thumping, well, maybe that’s of some use. Time will tell.
#41 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 3:35 pm
Your jibes and insults don’t offend me in the least. It reminds me of 4 particular customers of ours. It’s two couples who are neighbors, middle aged, middle class mainstream suburbanites who got to calling me at home since our number is on our site. They’d all get together and put me on speaker phone and listen to me go on about politics or history and tell me how I should write a book, etc…One week I was busy and directed them to Bob’s article section and told them I didn’t know anything compared to this guy. Next time they called they said they had read a couple random articles and when asked for their response one of the women said, “He sure does think a lot of himself, doesn’t he?” I told them to listen to his audios and to start with the first five of them. They fell in love with Bob. I think his voice and speaking style comes across much better than the written word. These customers also all had group think going on…the first one that might have rolled their eyes at his perceived conceited bragging in an article affected all of them, and they viewed Bob as an outsider. Once they listened to a handful of his talks, they warmed up and bought in to what was happening, so to speak.
I obviously know how to work with people. I enjoyed being on Dr. Pierce’s personally chosen staff and some of the women there cried when me and Emily and children left. But I butted heads with DP on certain issues, and I was not diplomatic about telling him the avoidable consequences of letting Gliebe run anything. My dire predictions pale when compared to what Gliebe has actually done to the NA since Pierce’s death.
Some of you first encountered me on Stormfront. I have personal issues with Don Black that go back years, I have been kicked off of SF many times because of this, and no, I do not behave myself there. Is it possible that you have reacted to me as a group would to any outsider? Do you really think you are getting an accurate picture of who I am or what my personality is? Nothing I’ve done in the last 20+ years would have been possible if I did not know how to work harmoniously with like minded folks. What is it about your group of Bugsers that might possibly have provoked what might appear to be disdain, condescension, impatience or sarcastic impatience? Maybe it’s easier to assume the fault lies with me, huh?
I don’t need friends, I’m just saying this in case you ever wonder why it is so hard for you to recruit and persuade people to buy into your efforts. The easy way out is for tiny groups to say they want “quality over quantity,” the same way that Gliebe justified everybody abandoning ship at the NA as him “cleaning house and weeding out the bad seeds.” Uh-huh. Didn’t fool anybody then either, did it?
None of which has anything to do with attracting the masses by buying ad time in local political races, which is what this thread is about.
#42 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 10:25 am
Never let ‘I’ stand in the way of ‘we.’
#43 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 3:58 pm
@ Byron:
You, you, you. It’s always all about you, you, you.
My impression is that you’re just screwing with our heads here, albeit unintentionally IMO.
What is it EXACTLY and PRECISELY that you would like us to be doing in regard to you that we are not doing? If you have EVER explicitly stated that among your insults and belittlements of us (alternating with your beguiling charm and “reasonableness”), I’ve missed it.
Until you state precisely what you want from us that you aren’t getting, or direct me to where you’ve already stated it, I conclude you’re just messing with our heads whether that’s your intention or not.
As I asked you above, but got no response from you (you preferred to respond to my other sentence of much less importance so you could get in your bit about “unstable wackos”), I’ll ask you again:
Why not just jump right in with some specific ideas on the threads here where publicity and such is being discussed?
Have you done that?
#44 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 6:51 pm
Has everyone stopped posting on this thread for today because they think I’ve hit the money on the head and there’s nothing more to say, or because they think I’ve gone insane and might only get worse? Lol! 🙂
#45 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 6:57 pm
Maybe it has nothing to do with you, Mr. Dumpty. Maybe Fourmyle is the one that hit the nail on the head and there is nothing more to say. Ever consider that?
#46 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 10:28 am
Maybe we have not even begun to swing the hammer.
#47 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 9:14 pm
For the third time, Byron:
Why don’t you just jump right in with some specific ideas on the threads here where publicity and such is being discussed?
What exactly have you suggested to us so far?
Those aren’t rhetorical questions. If you’ve actually made suggestions on this site and have gotten negative responses, let’s discuss those suggestions and the responses you got right here on this thread, instead of everyone including you being OFF TOPIC by extolling the general virtues of Byron Calvert.
#48 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 9:19 pm
Calvert, after writing my last post, I made this note to myself:
Let’s see if Calvert for once responds to the main point of my post to him instead of replying to some lesser statement to keep his game going.
#49 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 9:58 pm
But Mr. Dumpty I don’t owe you answers or explanations, and in any case I have already withdrawn my suggestion that any of my experiences would be useful here. Remember? You responded by calling me a jerk. And OldBlighty reminded me that I am not a consultant and that nobody here will take directions from me. So basically, if I want to do a project, I’ll do it myself again or it won’t get done. You can consider yourself the grand champion of the debate and go to bed happy tonight. You have accomplished so much. I had no idea what type of skills you brought to the table, and now I do.
#50 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/04/2011 - 10:13 pm
So why are you still posting here? You keep saying goodbye, sort of, but you don’t leave. Why?
I think I already know the answer to that, having seen your same act both here and on the Stormfront thread, but I’m curious what your answer to the question would be.
And I’m not interested AT ALL in winning a debate with you. I’m interested in YOU WINNING THE DEBATE WITH ME!
That’s the truth, believe it or not.
So let me repeat, for the fourth time, which for a bugster is nothing more than just getting warmed up:
“Why don’t you just jump right in with some specific ideas on the threads here where publicity and such is being discussed?”
And for the second time, since you’ve complained in a general way on this thread that we here have been antagonistic to what you have to offer:
“What exactly have you suggested to us so far?
“Those aren’t rhetorical questions. If you’ve actually made suggestions on this site and have gotten negative responses, let’s discuss those suggestions and the responses you got right here on this thread.”
#51 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 10:40 am
“Why don’t you just jump right in with some specific ideas on the threads here where publicity and such is being discussed?”
Bob wrote: “No, they do NOT have a point. For at least the fourth time, let me repeat that they command titanic resources which were mobilized over the years for giant causes which all won and which all failed miserably.”
http://www.whitakeronline.org/blog/2011/11/24/if-you-don%E2%80%99t-want-to-end-up-as-a-respectable-conservative-creep-read-this/
#52 by Byron on 12/04/2011 - 10:34 pm
Oh, no, you are confused. I never said goodbye, I’m saying I don’t think what I have ever done will produce any results with the Mantra. I have withdrawn that suggestion, for the third time now. I imagine buying ads on the local cable access channel for local political races is the key to the future, and what the topic of this thread is, so maybe that’s what should be discussed? I don’t know, you seem entitled to dictate the terms of the conversation as far as who can participate and what they should answer, etc., why don’t you tell us what we can talk about now?
#53 by Fourmyle on 12/04/2011 - 11:28 pm
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
Let’s talk about how we define effectiveness.
Byron Calvert’s comment was most insightful:
We now have a public test of the Mantra in the American political system. A3P’s candidate apparently will use it in his local elections. He could also run an ad in the Carto newspaper, rub ads in local newspapers/shoppers advertisements, or do any number of things, including public access on cable regionally, and buying time on WWCR. The latter worked well in building a national group of more than one thousand monthly dues payers for the Hillsboro Alliance. All of these, linked to a website, will allow us to measure what kind of response we get. Remember, cutting and pasting words does not have the effectiveness of the power of SOUND, which tv and Radio – particularly WWCR – has to offer.
Did we have any feedback from Mr. Kelso or any A3P candidate on any of this?
Again, Mr. Calvert:
A successor implies organization. Organization implies mature, responsible Adults. Is that what we are missing from self-identified White Nationalists?
Why have we found it so challenging to attract Competent Adults, even when we offer them tangible political campaign support?
Again, did we have any feedback from Mr. Kelso or any A3P candidate on any of this? If not, why not?
Should we consider looking to Mr. Calvert’s example in terms of developing the skills of political candidates in dealing with practical politics?
Again, did we have any feedback from Mr. Kelso or any A3P candidate on any of this? If not, why not? It seems to have been more than a week since he was contacted.
#54 by Peter Whiterabbit on 12/04/2011 - 11:37 pm
Well, I don’t have the patience to read through this thread but let me summarize what should be done:
1 – We need to spread the mantra
2 – There is more than one way to spread the mantra
3 – Some people know how to spread a certain message that may or may not be transferred to the mantra. If they think they can help with step 1, they can prove it by using the methods on the mantra OR
4 – A bugster can contact that person to see what they can learn from them.
4 – See number 1
#55 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 12:16 am
@ Fourmyle:
“Did we have any feedback from Mr. Kelso”
So that we’re all on the same page, your question pertains to Bob’s phone conversation with Kelso that Bob reported in his original post above:
“[BOB]: Could Brandt run an ad consisting of the Mantra? How much would it be? I could pay for it if it’s not…
KELSO: Yes, Bob, I’m sure that Ralph would like to run the mantra as a political ad. I’ll get the radio prices for this now, and get back to you with them…”
Bob then stated to us in his post:
“…Now what I would like is for the candidate to simply recite the Mantra and say he authorized this ad.
But, as we few know all too well, the response to the Mantra at first is always “DUHHH!” A mass “DUHH!” and media silence is not what a candidate is normally looking for.
Would somebody else contact Kelso and discuss this and give us a new angle or a new start.
Kelso can be reached day and might at 561-351-4424.
I just called him and he has agreed to do a piece for us on his use of the media this way.”
As I described in my post above at 11/25/2011 – 5:19 pm, my “new angle” is that I think Bob recites his Mantra wonderfully, much better than anyone else I’ve heard, and in the message I left Kelso at his website whitenewsnow.com at 11/25/2011, which I posted above at 11/25/2011 – 6:18 pm, I suggested to Kelso that one of Bob’s existing recitations of the Mantra be used in the ad. As Byron’s experience with the couple who didn’t care for Bob’s writing but loved Bob’s audios attests, Bob’s voice, inflection, etc. does wonders for his material.
Kelso didn’t respond to my message, so I’ll call him tomorrow. Since I’m not in communication with Bob, I’ll go on the assumption that Bob hasn’t heard back from him, and that all of us are wondering if it’s going to happen…I’ll think of some other things to ask or say…maybe others here would like to call Kelso too, and we could discuss right now some points that should be raised with him. I think I felt a little stymied by the “new angle” request from Bob…I don’t have any new angles other than the one I mentioned. If others here don’t either, but would still like to call Kelso, maybe you could listen to Bob’s recitation of the Mantra that I linked in my second post that I just mentioned, and see if you don’t think Bob’s recitation might overcome the “duh” factor Bob mentioned, and if so maybe you would want to call Jamie and try along with me to encourage him to listen to that for himself. He may have his own hesitancies about the mantra, or the candidate might, that they don’t feel comfortable expressing.
What do you all think?
#56 by Fourmyle on 12/05/2011 - 1:22 am
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
Harumphty:
So, after more than a week, we do not have ONE SINGLE WORD back from Kelso. This is either Real Good News – he’s very busy with all the Good Stuff that is happening as a result of this Idea’s wild acceptance – or it is Real Bad News – to quote Heath Ledger’s Joker, their balls dropped off.
I’m hoping it is the former.
If A3P’s man has fear about labelled by the N&J crowd, tell him I suspect that’s already a done deal. So, in for a dime…
Note that the Emma West video has almost TWO MILLION views on YouTube. If half are FOR – a not unreasonable expectation – then in the space of a few days more than a million people in the Connected Community are interested in something the mainstream media is trying desperately to ignore.
If A3P simply frames their arguments in terms of the Constitution – right of freedom of association sounds good, as well as the right to freedom of expression – the Mantra should make them winners, and get a lot of free media attention. It might not be Mainstream Media, but the Connected Community will self-select IN on this issue.
And, to answer your last point, if they have “hesitancies about the Mantra they don’t feel comfortable expressing,” then that’s all we need to know about A3P. Just look for the testicles on the side of the road.
Some practical politics – if someone is offering you an instant political campaign slogan, with proven effectiveness, and OFFERS TO PAY FOR IT your advertisements using it, and you turn it down, then the race has been run. Past tense.
You lost, simply by not showing up.
Apt metaphor for self-identified White Nationalists, that.
#57 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 11:13 am
How very ‘Woody Allen’ of you to say so.
#58 by Fourmyle on 12/05/2011 - 11:14 pm
THEIR GOAL IS GENOCIDE. OURS. WHAT’S YOURS?
Genseric makes an acute observation.
When I said we – White Nationalists – lost by simply not showing up, I said this was an apt metaphor for White Nationalism. The exceptions are few, and very far between – Rockwell, Oliver, Greg Johnson and his associates at counter-currents, Harold A. Covington, some BUGSers, and, if your concern is missed potential, Robert Mathews and David Eden Lane.
Genseric is referring to Woody Allen’s statement that most of success is simply showing up. That’s his side, for us. His side, for HIS side, is showing up prepared, with a Game Plan, and options for achieving a Goal of some sort or another. When Woody Allen shows up, somewhere around him are pople who HAPPENED to show up, and did not show up in a purposeful manner, with Adult analyses of the problem, and how to solve it to the benefit of those who matter.
Take the case of A3P’s candidate, and Mr. Kelso.
One, I am astonished that the Mantra was not discussed as the foundation of a political campaign; it would get people talking and might lead to people deciding to organize against the genocide of their Race. I say again, “Might.”
Two, I am astonished that no one has got back to us with a resounding “Yes, and thank you for the motto, and the money.” I have found that if you have to ask your people to take money to do what is in their interests, you are dealing with the wrong people.
Again, Genseric’s Woody Allen metaphor hits home:
We did not show up.
When William Pierce strangled Rockwell’s National Youth Alliance – the foundation of a national, pro-White political organization – in the cradle, he made sure the next generation that did bother to show up, did so spectacularly ill-equipped.
So, no one showed up, then, or now.
This, incidentally, is the power of demoralization, described by Bezmenov as the most powerful weapon of subversion,.induced by our OWN side, in action.
Without firing a shot, the Other Side wins, simply by showing up, and insuring we stay home, thanks to the Consensus Trance, soft, helpless, and afraid, Eloi in a world of Morlocks.
To extend Genseric’s metaphor one step further, remember that the Eloi came actively, without force, at the sonic, nonverbal command of the Morlocks. At least THEY showed up!
“Consistent message,” Indeed.
#59 by OldBlighty on 12/05/2011 - 12:28 am
“Mr. Whitaker is a professional persuader and after all these years he complains that he has only persuaded a dozen or two people to copy and paste his Mantra.”
You see this is what I find so strange.
When our people get access to the media and the anti-Whites in the media, work out they are losing badly in open debates against BUGSers, they are shut out of the system and never ever get called back.
Yet when some Pro White, gets on the media and talks about “niggers and Jews” for shock value, they are called back, time after time – you can guess why.
And then we have Pro Whites popping up, telling us we should stop, we BUGSers have no real numbers and we should go back to talking about “niggers and Jews”.
Well if we were not succeeding and our numbers are so small, why are these Pro Whites so concerned? A few Pro Whites “wasting their time” is nothing in the scheme of things, isn’t it?
Bob has calls this behavior “Fighting for Defeat” and I find it Bizarre.
Anti-racists have no problems, getting on message. They will repeat racist, racist, racist, endlessly and we know how well it has worked, but most Pro White won’t even do that much.
As a “civilian” coming into the Pro White movement, from the outside, I have come to the strong opinion, the only people stopping White people from getting their own countries, is the Pro White movement.
I know that is a funny thing to say, but I think it is true.
If it is true, what can we do about that? I want to live in a White country.
#60 by Byron on 12/05/2011 - 12:51 am
“When our people get access to the media and the anti-Whites in the media, work out they are losing badly in open debates against BUGSers, they are shut out of the system and never ever get called back.”
How many times has this ever really happened? Can you link to videos, or are you still talking about some Fox interview with Bob that didn’t get aired? Is there a consistent pattern of Bugsers owning their opponent on a televized debate and then never making it on air again, or is this just some anecdotal evidence that reveals nothing?
“And then we have Pro Whites popping up, telling us we should stop, we BUGSers have no real numbers and we should go back to talking about “niggers and Jews”.”
Who has ever told you to stop doing what you do and suggested you talk about N&J instead?
“Well if we were not succeeding and our numbers are so small, why are these Pro Whites so concerned?”
Who do you perceive as being concerned about you? Someone on SF or Youtube? Real people or internet user names trying to irritate you or what?
I have seen some of you Bugsters (or people purporting to be Bugsters) fussing at random people on message boards about how they are not to say “anti” anymore because it is now “anti-white” and that has provoked them to back the Bugsters off by asking them to justify their attitude and I’ve seen that handled in varying degrees of maturity by both sides…..But it has always been the (probably newbie) Bugster trying to “dictate terminology” or whatever, and tailgating his way into a fruitless argument.
But in any case, how the pro-White “movement” views your particular sect and/or who gets invited onto the media has nothing whatsoever with Bob being a professional persuader that hasn’t persuaded many of you to do anything much, and that’s according to Bob’s own words. He complains about it. You have a long way to go before you have to figure out how to live in a White country.
#61 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 11:38 am
Bob wrote about this as well.
He said [paraphrasing], “the worst message, the absolute most damaging thing you can put out there, is EXACTLY what the anti-Whites ALLOW us to say.”
I wonder how that applies here. Hmmmm…?
#62 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 12:37 am
Byron, when I just read over my last post and came to Bob’s phrase, “media silence,” it occurred to me that you might have some ideas for a “new angle” that would get media attention.
I’m thinking that somehow highlighting the phrase “genocide” more, or possibly even repeating the phrase “White genocide,” might get some media attention, if the candidate is willing to do it. (If we can get the candidate sincerely interested in using the Mantra, he may have his own ideas. I think we should strongly encourage Jamie to encourage the candidate himself to listen to Bob’s recitation of the Mantra! It’s MUCH more powerful than just reading it!)
The media may not want to talk about genocide, but sometimes the media reports some things before “what the media wants” comes down from on high and cuts it off.
Just thoughts, I’m not very savvy about media.
I wasn’t really focused on this, and maybe others of you here weren’t either. Let’s do focus on it and call Kelso…I think I’ll suggest that we’d love for the candidate, if he’s interested at least to some degree, to come here and enter into some brainstorming and discussion with us about the possibilities.
#63 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 4:41 am
Frustration. I was hoping to search this site for all of Byron’s posts to see what has really gone on since he arrived. But I’m unable to do the search. And I can’t find any relevant posts (my question is, are there any) on what seemed to me the likeliest threads, Debate Advice and Style, and Crazy Ideas For Spreading the Mantra.
In any case, I apologize to you Byron, and to Bob and the other bugsters, for the language I used earlier today. That was inappropriate in any case.
I can’t find your posts, and you aren’t willing to direct me to any posts relevant to your claim that your approach has been rejected here, or even to tell me in your own words any specific examples of that, and your posts are erased from SF so I can’t check that thread to find how the trouble started there between you and bugsters.
If anyone knows where the hidden posts are in which Byron’s approach was rejected by bugsters, I would appreciate being informed. I followed that SF thread closely (ah, I do suddenly recall vaguely some opposition to his approach by bugsters on that thread, opposition that I didn’t agree with. But it didn’t seem a big deal to me), and I’ve followed most of the discussion on this site and don’t recall seeing any rejection here.
Without more knowledge, I think I’ve made whatever contribution or non-contribution to that particular subject I can make. Those of you with the energy to make use of Byron’s talents can start afresh anyway. I made considerable effort on that SF thread to get him to come here. Now he’s here. Probably through no effort of mine. It would be a shame not to be able to find a way to profit from his being here.
#64 by OldBlighty on 12/05/2011 - 9:29 am
“How many times has this ever really happened? … or is this just some anecdotal evidence that reveals nothing?”
Byron, you are saying I am making things up now. You are saying my word, our word, is worth nothing, and you were talking about rudeness above?
To answer your question. Bob has talked about being shut out many times on this blog. If you had read this blog for any length of time you would know that – Are you saying Bob is making it up?
Creator talked about getting exactly the same treatment this year, as it happened. A second show he appeared on, didn’t make it to air, because it went so badly for them. One of the hosts was silly enough to say he wanted White GeNOcide and the entire show was canned for that reason.
Now the leading anti-Whites in Iceland will not respond to Creator at all, when he challenges them..
It is a total lockout on Creator in Iceland. Bob told him to expect it. – Is Creator making it up?
This has also been done to Derek Black that Horus has told us about. In an interview with News Week (my memory is bad could be another mag), absolutely none of his Mantra talking points made it to air and he was on Mantra 100%.
How come only the Mantra bits were cut? How did they know which bits were Mantra?
– Is Derek Black and Horus making it up?
“You have a long way to go before you have to figure out how to live in a White country.”
We have to get a White country first and I grew up in a country that was White and did just fine thanks.
Now my country is not White any more, thanks to the failure of White Nationalism to get on a consistent message that works, for the last 50 damn years!
So thanks for not doing that guys, you all know who you are.
And as you say, the old timers still want to call anti-Whites “anti”, which says absolutely nothing about the anti-Whites, instead of labeling the evil bastards for what they are.
Anti-Whites have never had a problem labeling us as “evil”, every time they talk about us.
However I do have hope, as the more intelligent leadership, is beginning to get it and use the Mantra. So it looks like it could go top down.
“But in any case, how the pro-White “movement” views your particular sect and/or who gets invited onto the media has nothing whatsoever with Bob being a professional persuader that hasn’t persuaded many of you to do anything much, and that’s according to Bob’s own words. He complains about it.”
I can tell from your “persuader” comments you know nothing about what BUGS does. Perhaps if you did your homework, you would know what you are talking about?
I will tell you, BUGS is not about persuading and making friends. BUGS is about social engineering. That is all the homework I will do for you.
“that hasn’t persuaded many of you to do anything much”
Byron, I am going to be honest. All you have done here is negative. Are you a passive aggressive by any chance? I think you should get a diagnosis and get some professional help.
TBH I don’t see you being anything but a drain on this group. I think you were 100% right when you said you had nothing to offer us, so I will say a goodbye to you as polite as I can manage.
As I said, BUGS wants quality, not quantity and until you produce something of value to us, you are wasting out time.
We have work to do.
BUGS is not a discussion group, so please go to a Pro White website if you want to do that.
Again, we have work to do.
Goodbye and good luck.
#65 by Genseric on 12/05/2011 - 10:32 am
“Your jibes and insults don’t offend me in the least. It reminds me of 4 particular customers of ours. It’s two couples who are neighbors, middle aged, middle class mainstream suburbanites who got to calling me at home since our number is on our site. They’d all get together and put me on speaker phone and listen to me go on about politics or history and tell me how I should write a book, etc…One week I was busy and directed them to Bob’s article section and told them I didn’t know anything compared to this guy. Next time they called they said they had read a couple random articles and when asked for their response one of the women said, “He sure does think a lot of himself, doesn’t he?” I told them to listen to his audios and to start with the first five of them. They fell in love with Bob. I think his voice and speaking style comes across much better than the written word. These customers also all had group think going on…the first one that might have rolled their eyes at his perceived conceited bragging in an article affected all of them, and they viewed Bob as an outsider. Once they listened to a handful of his talks, they warmed up and bought in to what was happening, so to speak.”
This and the pamphlet thing (whatever Mantra bits it might contain) are a GREAT start. Let’s take it from there. I like the guy. He has spunk.
#66 by OldBlighty on 12/05/2011 - 12:36 pm
Byron,
I misread what you wrote again, at the bottom. I thought you were putting BUGS down. Sorry about going on the attack again.
The way you phrased that first question really got my hackles up though. If you don’t trust our word, then I don’t see how we can work together.
As this misunderstanding has happened twice now, I think its better you and I, do not interact again.
Cheers.
#67 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 1:22 pm
@ Byron: You’re already distributing a booklet with Bob’s messages to your customers. Maybe your fondness for what Bob has to say (including the Mantra, I assume) will begin to enter into your business in other ways, and before long you’ll find yourself drawn into the kind of major involvement in spreading Bob’s words that you were giving to your own message back when you were getting your own message out to millions.
That would be the best thing by far that could happen. I think you’re right that none of us here have the skills to carry out successfully the kinds of things you might suggest which you yourself could carry out successfully.
I have a different reaction this morning to your comments just on this thread. You’re characteristically blunt and not-diplomatic (to say the least), but perhaps we overreact to that. You seem to get this reaction wherever you go, but it’s possible that everyone overreacts to you.
Your question that OldBlighty took some umbrage to above, I find to be just a matter-of-fact question this morning. (OldBlighty, thanks for that history!)
All I really feel this morning is happiness that you did the booklet! As Genseric says, let’s take it from there.
#68 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 3:25 pm
I just called Jamie Kelso’s number that Bob left above, 561-351-4424, and left my return number and a voice message to Kelso that I was one of Bob’s bugsters and we were excited here about the possibility of Ralph Brandt’s using the Mantra in his campaign ads.
I mentioned the PM I’d sent Kelso at his site a week ago, and its link to Bob’s recitation of his Mantra, and I said that I hoped both he and Brandt would be able to take a moment to listen to Bob’s recitation since I think it’s so excellent and usable.
I told him we had this thread here, Mantra Campaign Ads, that he could post on if he liked, and I told him I would try to reach him again.
#69 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/05/2011 - 4:37 pm
Still puzzling over the communications just on this thread between Calvert and the rest of us.
Calvert, I take constructive criticism very well now.
But I won’t tolerate gratuitous insults, either to myself or to other bugsters, and I consider “unstable wackos,” and, “If I ever see anyone [here] show serious initiative, aptitude or potential, I’d help them out,” to be gratuitous insults.
There’s serious initiative, aptitude and potential here aplenty, but you seem to be stuck in a loop of not being able to offer people respect unless they have abilities as extraordinary as your own.
If you have constructive criticism to offer someone, please offer it to that particular person and be specific, and if you have a personal beef with someone, please take up your specific beef with that particular person.
It was your insults that lit my fuse yesterday.
#70 by Byron on 12/05/2011 - 7:17 pm
@ OldBlighty:
“To answer your question. Bob has talked about being shut out many times on this blog. If you had read this blog for any length of time you would know that – Are you saying Bob is making it up?”
No, it’s not about Bob or Horus or Derek making anything up. It’s about exactly what I asked: are these just anecdotal pieces of evidence that don’t really mean anything? That’s why I gave the example of my customers’ reaction to Bob’s written articles and his audio stuff….if I was explaining this to you verbally, you’d understand. Instead, you read it like I’m a jerk or an enemy and think I’m attacking.
Remember learning the Scientific Method in science class? You make an observation, make a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, make a conclusion, right? Because there are many variables. If your wife says the steering wheel is making a funny sound under the hood, you doubt that, and start asking questions, right? Doesn’t mean you don’t believe her. So, why does she think this? Because when she turns right or left, she hears a squeal. Hmm, always? When the car is cold, or after it’s warmed up? When you drive the car, you notice no such thing….You find out that your wife drives differently than you, and she rides the brakes on turns in just such a way that the brakes make a noise, and you see that you have to replace the brake pads, not the steering wheel or whatever. You didn’t trust an anecdotal observation, you tested it.
You say Bob has talked about being shut out of the media several times here. Does that mean he has been shut out several times, and he’s talked about it, or that he got shut out by Fox that one time and has talked about it several times? Because on SF I asked repeatedly and only the one Fox interview was ever talked about in answer.
There are many variables to everything. There are lots of reasons the media doesn’t let you on. It doesn’t always mean they hate you because you are just so awesome. But let’s just play along with that, as a thinking exercise, OK?
Observation: You never hear Mantra in the media.
Hypothesis: Nothing Mantra is ever going to be allowed on MSM because it is too effective.
Test: Several people try several different methods of obtaining several different types of media coverage with the Mantra. Talk shows, radio call-in shows, letters to the editor, press conferences, etc.
Result: Complete shut out.
Conclusion: Mantra can not attain media coverage.
OK, I don’t think this has happened and I don’t accept it as a factual conclusion, but as a thinking exercise, let’s go with it.
So, what would you do about it? To use the Project Schoolyard example, we got results the ADL didn’t necessarily intend. We got tons of business, made tons of cash to fund future projects, and reached a lot of people with our message. So how would you get media attention with something OTHER than the mantra, but would lead people to a website, for example, that had the Mantra?
Sorry to talk about me again, but my examples are the ones I know best…But we could not get Rolling Stone Magazine to run an ad for us, so we simply bought a fake ad (Why is this music illegal?) with a fake website, and the day 11 million copies went to print, we changed the website, put our message there and had it forward to panzerfaust.com.
That’s just an example.
But even if you accept that straight Mantra stuff will never see media light, I’m looking for you guys to do some critical thinking and come up with a strategy for getting around that. That is what I mean by people not having certain aptitudes or capabilities. It’s not derogatory, but it’s provocative. I’m trying to provoke you to think, not be uselessly angry at me. The fact that I have to actually say that kind of defeats the purpose. If I saw anybody thinking outside the box and engaging their problem solving skills, I’d think about approaching them and going to the next step with them. And not on a public forum.
#71 by Genseric on 12/06/2011 - 12:28 am
Jesus Christ. Even the observation starts out incorrectly.
No no no. “You never hear about WHITE GENOCIDE in the media.” The Mantra is merely a vehicle which points to that simple truth. DUHhhhhhhh
Calvin, if little old me can get it, you sure as hell ought to be able to. They SILENCE IT because they are ANTI-WHITE. Again, duh. Google Bob Whitaker / Bugs / SPLC / ADL. Hits?
With all due respect, Byron. The Message you were propagating was Respectable enough they LET YOU air it. Get it?
1.Niger Niger Niger. Hang em high, blah blah blah.
2.No fuck that, it’s White genocide.
See the difference? Dude. If my parents are starting to warm up to this idea, then you better get your label on this consistent message, and quick, or somebody is going to beat you to it. I guarantee it.
I do like your example of your own test and how you measured the results. Now, how does that apply to White genocide?
The closest thing I can come up with is “Why are these WORDS illegal?” What we are missing is a commercially-polished website which redirects to a “call to action.” A website ASKING for money to fight White genocide. A dues-paying website for professionals who specify and seek to attain real world solutions. However, that goes against Bob’s logical thoughts about not talking about Policy before they actually acknowledge the crime. Again, see the difference?
If the next step is to start a BUGS HQ for video and social media production and to get candidates elected while on message, what are the necessary steps to get there? One. Money. So, how do we tailor a solution as you propose to fit the White genocide message? What do we do to transition to the next vehicle/phase after they catch on to our methods?
We have the talent. We lack the business plan.
#72 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/06/2011 - 1:02 am
Your last post inspired me, Byron. (Or possibly it was all the butt-kicking that preceded it, who knows). I’ve been talking offline to another bugster about something that might be useful.
#73 by Simmons on 12/06/2011 - 10:30 am
Calvert are you spreading the Mantra? Concepts dealing with white genocide and the Mantra?
If so, good, if you are modifying the Mantra then keep it to yourself.
Point being if we Bugsters run across a WN screwing the Mantra up as Bob describes today then we core group can correct this transgression.
Bob corrects us here, we Bugsters correct the posters out in the field.
#74 by Byron on 12/06/2011 - 1:35 pm
I’m exposing my customers and supporters to the Mantra and concepts dealing with White genocide exclusively using Bob’s own words and articles, so you get to keep your “corrections” to yourself.
#75 by Simmons on 12/06/2011 - 3:35 pm
No Byron if people are out there “tailgating” or spewing “static” they will be corrected, count on it.
#76 by Harumphty Dumpty on 12/06/2011 - 4:56 pm
@ Byron: You’ve mentioned several times that you took to Bob’s writings like a duck to water. I feel that way about almost everything on his audios (“porch talk”), but the little bit of his writing I’ve come across often delights me but just about as often confuses me. That would be these coaching sessions (though having now begun reading his early ones from 2004, I find those to be pure delight…I’m not having any trouble with those) and National Salvation.
Have you found other writings of his that you like better, or would recommend to someone having the difficulties I just expressed? I just got a copy of Why Johnny Can’t Think, and am looking forward to reading that.
These questions are directed to everyone else here also. Please, a little help!
I gather that he himself bugstered a lot of anti-Whites for many years over on the Other Views threads at Stormfront…I’m planning on trying to find some of those threads also.
#77 by Byron on 12/06/2011 - 5:00 pm
Simmons: I don’t think you understand what I’m telling you. I have exclusive access to my own customers and supporters via our websites, mailing lists, what we send in all of the orders that ship out of here, our message boards, etc…You can scold folks here where Bob lets you, but you’ll be doing no “correcting” in any of the venues that I control and communicate in.
In any case, I don’t feel the need to change or modify Bob’s stuff, I just dish it out straight.
#78 by Simmons on 12/07/2011 - 10:42 am
I’m talking about public venues. good day